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What happens when a Muslim in the Islamic world converts to Christianity…and loses everything? In this week's podcast, Help The Persecuted CEO Joshua Youssef speaks with Qadi, one of our team leaders who was instrumental in creating our Enduring Livelihood Ministry, through which hundreds of persecuted Christians have found dignity and independence through small business ownership. Qadi shares what it’s like getting to witness persecuted Christians being lifted out of poverty and how Help The Persecuted’s Enduring Livelihood Ministry is helping the persecuted church not only endure, but flourish and multiply.
Episode Transcript
[Joshua Youssef] (0:05 - 1:26)
Welcome to Prisoners of Hope, where we bring you powerful stories, urgent updates, and firsthand testimonies from persecuted Christians. Real faith, real persecution, and a God who does the impossible every day. These voices from the front lines of faith will transform and inform how you pray and show you what hope in Jesus really means.
Welcome to another episode of the Prisoners of Hope podcast, a ministry of Help the Persecuted. I am Joshua Yousef, president and CEO of Help the Persecuted, and we've been talking lately about our enduring livelihood ministry. I'm calling this program Restoring Dignity and Independence to the Christian Convert, and it's kind of a continuation on a conversation that we had last week on this topic.
And so joining me today is Qadi. Qadi serves our team in the Enduring Livelihood Office. We won't say what country he's in.
We'll keep that, and his name is obviously not Qadi. But what Qadi does for us is critical. It's critical to the success of the Enduring Livelihood program.
Welcome to the show, Qadi.
[Qadi] (1:27 - 2:00)
Thank you so much, Josh. Thank you for your kind words, and I'm very great to have this opportunity to speak the voice of the people here, the persecuted believers, of what's happening with them, and how they are grateful and thankful for all the support that is changing their life and making a difference in their life. So thank you again for this opportunity.
Yeah.
[Joshua Yosusef] (2:01 - 2:34)
You know, Qadi, we introduced people in the last podcast to this idea of civic death, the idea that in an honor-shame culture, someone who brings dishonor to the majority must be shamed back to the fellowship of that community. And so I wonder, from your perspective, what was the first encounter you had with civic death or, you know, someone losing their livelihood because of their faith?
[Qadi] (2:37 - 5:37)
Actually, we are witnessing this thing every day, every single day, even in our lives. Actually, I want to tell you a little story that happened with me. When I was a kid, that had a great impact, which made me stand here today to help the persecuted believers.
When I was a kid, even though I didn't have a job, I experienced something that shaped my understanding of persecution and losing something important to me. Back then, the church gave me a children's Bible filled with pictures and cartoons. It was very special to me.
But in my home country, extended families are very close. And when my relatives found out that my mom was taking us to an evangelical church, it became a very serious problem. One day, my aunt came to our home.
They knew that I have this little Bible, and they asked from where Qadi get that Bible. She took my little Bible right in front of me, started tearing it apart, ripping the pages. I was a kid, destroying something I really loved.
But what stayed with me even more was what my mom did next. She didn't go and ask for another Bible for me. Instead, she carefully picked up the pages, tried to put them together, and handed that to me.
I was a kid. I want another Bible. But she told me, son, let this stay in your heart.
People, they take things very precious from you because of your faith, but never let them take your faith away from you. Her legacy, her strength, her wisdom helped me to stand firm. And here I am today, living that legacy, living that faith by helping persecuted believers to reclaim what was taken from them, their job, their safety, their sense of dignity, the important things that they are living.
And so here I am, serving contribution with passion and having this legacy in my heart. Wow, Qadi, I love that story. Yeah.
[Joshua Youssef] (5:37 - 5:40)
I love what your mom said. Don't let them take this from your heart.
[Qadi] (5:40 - 5:42)
She is a very good believer.
[Joshua Youssef] (5:43 - 6:51)
Yeah. Wow. What an impact on you and the fact that it shaped you to be able to kind of come alongside people who've had that proverbial, the metaphorical Bible ripped up in front of them.
Wow. Yeah, exactly. In the West, I think people are listening to this podcast, Qadi, and they may not fully understand even just your story of someone ripping up a Bible.
I mean, it's so hard, I think, for this audience to perhaps even put themselves in your shoes. Why are there such severe consequences and ramifications to, you know, particularly the convert, but why is it so, why is there such violence and such attack? And particularly around that economic attack, where someone is basically told you can't earn a living, you're not worthy of a dollar, of a currency?
[Qadi] (6:53 - 8:53)
Well, it's a very good question. In many places across our region. Let me put it in words.
Faith is not just a personal decision or belief. It's deeply connected to family, with culture, identity, and even daily economic life. When someone decides to follow Jesus, especially from a Muslim background, it's often seen as a rejection or betrayal to their family, culture and country.
As a result of this decision, they might lose their job, blacklisted from employment, be rejected by their families, be forced to leave their homes, or even be harmed physically, which happens most of the time. Especially that most of the jobs usually come through personal connections and relationships. This is how it goes in our region.
Losing your family or network can mean losing everything. Unfortunately, many of these believers are mothers and fathers who simply want to take care of their children, but their faith put even basic survival needs at risk, which means complete civic death, the loss of status, support, and stability. That's why what we are doing now, the Enduring Livelihood Ministry is so important to them.
It helps these brave men and women to rebuild their lives, support their families again, and move forward with hope. And this is why it's very crucial and important.
[Joshua Youssef] (8:55 - 9:11)
What, you know, Qadi, you've been with us since the beginning, really from the ground floor, you've watched the Enduring Livelihood Department really grow. What's that been like, helping create the whole thing and being a part of the process?
[Qadi] (9:13 - 11:15)
Well, the Enduring Livelihood Ministry is both a calling and a step of faith. I still remember a meaningful conversation we had one day with one of the seniors and leadership brother, Joan, as we discussed how to support those in need through sustainable projects. He shared two powerful examples that have stayed with me until this day.
One was about a missionary providing eye surgeries for patients, but in some cases only restoring one eye so that others could also receive help. So the second was the well-known principle, everyone knows that, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. These two principles lived in us to help as much as we can, and to enable persecuted believers how to fish.
Eventually, throughout the journey, we realized that persecuted believers didn't just need a comfort or a financial help with living emergencies or expenses. They need a purpose and a new path forward, a way to start again, to rebuild, to sustain, to be a provider again. But as a father, he needs to be a provider again for his family.
And this is how it started and this is how it looked like. That's great.
[Joshua Youssef] (11:16 - 11:31)
And then maybe step us through the process. How do these people, they come to you and then how do you assess what they're good at and how do you build the business plan? How does this work?
What's the secret sauce?
[Qadi] (11:36 - 15:00)
Actually, the secret sauce or the process, it's a very important thing to us. The secret sauce is consistency. And for sure, planting a seed in a good soil.
Once we enable and empower one individual in their journey, there comes a day when they stand strong on their own. And when that moment arrives, it becomes their turn to lift someone else. That's what we call the ripple effect.
When we enable someone, when we identify the actual need and we assess the need of these people to start a project, it doesn't just stop them there. They raise their children, support their families and create new chances for the next generation. In addition, many of the people we've helped go and help others, especially other persecuted believers.
For example, when we support someone with a sewing project or a small store, usually they hire others, other believers, persecuted believers. For example, one man in Egypt, through our staff team member in Egypt, Brother Ran, who came to us to help him buy a tuk-tuk. A tuk-tuk, just to debrief about tuk-tuk, it's a small local taxi, like a mixture between a motorcycle and a golf cart, but in an Egyptian style.
So yeah, he asked us that he wants to share that with another persecuted brother. So he wants to work in the morning and he wants to give it to him in the evening, so they both could earn income. And it's truly a win-win situation.
And the most valuable and important thing and the turning point of these secret souls is when they start giving back. They start to tithing to their churches. As you know, most of them ask the church to help them, but now they start to tithing to their churches.
Even more, they are supporting churches in programs, cooking meals, offering guides. Too many of the cases telling us, now I can take people with me to the church. Most of them, they can't afford the transportation to go to the church and more.
So the business became a blessing to the whole community. So the real secret source is empowerment that grows and spreads, faith in action that multiplies. It's not just a one job.
It's not about giving the business and the job and that's it. No, it's about creating a cycle, a cycle of hope, a cycle of purpose, and a lasting impact. And this is the secret source.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
[Joshua Youssef] (15:00 - 15:32)
I love it. I love it. What, Qadi, how do you look, how do you determine, you know, I always tell people this statistic, you know, we did a study of all of these businesses that you've helped start.
And I think 78% of those businesses are still functioning today, cashflow positive, you know, going. What, how do you determine whether or not a business will be successful or whether this individual has the right skill set or the entrepreneurial spirit? I mean, how do you determine all this?
[Qadi] (15:33 - 19:09)
Great question. It's about the methodology and the approach, as we tend to follow a tailored approach to evaluate the success of the projects. And that's why we have this good outcomes.
Moreover, we don't believe in a one size fits all approach. As you know, culture, economic and political environments all play a key role. What works in Iraq doesn't mean might work in Lebanon.
So instead of this, as you mentioned, we take time to understand each person's unique story, skills, competencies, capabilities, work experience, and even their physical condition, especially for those who have been physically harmed by persecution, because we want to make sure that their health condition should never limit the project success. We can find a good opportunity for them that fit their health condition. We start then we start to conduct a comprehensive profit and loss analysis for the project.
Definitely with the support of our talented field team who help us to check prices, assess the market demand and needs, and consider potential risks. And as you know, in our region, we always have a potential risk. At this moment, we have missiles flying in the air.
So you know, every day we have a risk in our region, such as electricity shortage in Syria, we face it, gas supply issues in Yemen and Lebanon. So we want to make sure that we have a sufficient budget and allocated budget to find a solution for them like solar panels, and so on. So the project can sustain.
Then we review their past experience. We deep dive what they did, what they have experienced, share photos, share everything with us. If they have a good potential, but they need a training, then we have to do a training.
A training is needed, we encourage them and support them to start and learn more. We also do our research benchmark against similar projects that we already did, or projects that is already happening in the same country. We consult with our partners there and study the market carefully.
And by default, sharing success stories of other projects that we help and support and best practices for the sake to replicate the success with them. And we always follow up on the supported business cases to make sure projects are progressing well. And that people are standing on their feet and helping others.
And if due to unfortunate circumstances, like what's happening now, they need additional help, we are ready to support them again to make sure their business is sustaining, their project is going well. So we support them and we live their story and journey with them. I love it.
[Joshua Youssef] (19:09 - 20:01)
You guys do such a good job. I often tell people, my American friends or Australian Western friends, about the fact that women in the Middle East are not, they don't have the same rights. I tell the story about when my grandparents' estate in Egypt was settled.
My aunts received 50% of what my uncles received because of within the Egyptian law, within the sort of Arab understanding, that women are half of a man. What are some ways that you've seen this bring some dignity to Christian women, and convert women particularly, where the society has not necessarily given them those same rights and privileges?
[Qadi] (20:03 - 23:56)
Actually, this is one of the hardest and most sensitive questions. As you said, and I want to add one thing, in our culture, it's very difficult to women to follow Jesus, especially the one from Muslim background. You know why?
Because in our culture, women are seeing our, how to say it in English, our honour. We call it in Arabic, our honour and dignity as a man. And sadly, in some places, it's still considered acceptable, even expected to harm or even tell a woman if she's seen as bringing shame to the family.
Through the ministry, we help a lot of women, brave women, to rebuild their lives. And it was very difficult on them, giving them tools like sewing machine, baking supplies, and more. One story that always stays with me is of a woman, a mother who fled her country with three kids, one with special needs.
So you can imagine the weight she carries on her shoulder. When I first met her, she told me, she looked at me with tears in her eyes and said, Abi, I have one dream. My dream is to have a van, a truck, so she could work and care for her kids.
When she told me my dream to have a van, a truck, I said, oh, most of the people, they dream to have a Lamborghini, a Bugatti, not a van or a truck. Today, this woman, this brave woman, she drives across the country, delivering goods, heavy goods, delivering children to schools, doing the work of 10 men. She's not just a mother.
She's a hero. Actually, she's a hero, a role model for her kids. She delivered like the same that my mom did with me.
She's showing them that even when everyone has abandoned them, Jesus is not. So this support gives women much more than income, much more than a business, much more than a job. It's empowering them, builds confidence that they lost.
Imagine the life that they are living and bringing hope again to her and to her kids. These women, honestly, are not just survivors. They are heroes.
These women, as for Qadi, inspire me every day in the ministry. I love to hear their stories. I love to support them.
I love to empower them. I love to stand with them to ask how is it going? How's the business?
Do you need any help? Everything going well? How's your kids?
So now her kids going to the school and one of them to the university. This woman, she's establishing a healthy family that love Jesus. They are a hero.
They are a hero. I love that.
[Joshua Youssef] (23:56 - 23:58)
She's doing the job of 10 men.
[Qadi] (23:58 - 24:30)
10 men, heavy goods. She goes kilometers from a district to another district with one to two hours driving just to deliver goods. Holding it by her hand, put it in the van, driving at night and come back to her kids.
Yeah, she's doing a job of 10 men.
[Joshua Youssef] (24:34 - 24:44)
Qadi, what do you think is the future of this Enduring Livelihood ministry? What do you envision for the Enduring Livelihood program?
[Qadi] (24:44 - 26:22)
I keep praying that God will open more new doors for us to serve more persecuted believers. I truly believe the best is yet to come. With God's help, with our faithful partners working beside us, the leadership we have, the hard work of our amazing team, and the generosity of our donors who make all of this happen, all of this possible.
My vision is really is to see a lasting change in the lives of persecuted people and raising local leaders who feel called to bring light and hope to others who have the same vision in countries that we aim to help persecuted people and in countries that I believe that there are people, they need help, they need our support. We don't have access to it, but I know I'm pretty sure that they need someone to knock their door and tell them, let me help you. May we remain faithful for this.
I always pray for this, for this calling, bold in our steps, always remaining that is not our work alone. But it's God's work through us. So my vision is as simple as help people, persecuted people as much as we can.
[Joshua Youssef] (26:24 - 28:26)
That's good. Well, I'm going to pray for you right now, and then I'll close this. Lord, thank you for that word.
And we do...I thank you, Lord, that you took something that was kind of really evil that was done to Qadi, done to his prized possession, his Bible that was given to him. And you've taken that act, and you've used it for your good to shape his heart and give him a posture of help and desire to help people who are facing, in some cases, insurmountable obstacles where the entire community stands against them. Lord, thank you that you used that event in Qadi's life, and that you brought him to our team, and that you've uniquely equipped him and enabled him to serve these people.
Lord, we do pray that this would expand, that this would grow, that you would give us more resources to help more people to essentially break this cycle, this cycle of dependence, and this cycle of just languishing, and that people would not just survive, Lord, but as we heard today, that they would thrive in their communities, and that the children of these people would see this, and that they would, Lord, be discipled by this whole process.
So Lord, be with my brother. Strengthen him and the entire team, and as he said, that we would be found faithful in all that we do and all that we say for your kingdom, and for your sake we pray in Jesus' name. Amen.
Well, on behalf of Qadi, I'm Joshua Youssef, and we will see you for another episode of the Prisoners of Hope podcast next time. Thank you for joining us for this weekly update. To learn more about the Ministry of Help the Persecuted, visit us at www.htp.org.